Medetations on tumblr purity wank

[anarfea]

I’ve never understood this anti argument of, “try going outside and telling random strangers what you defend online and see what happens.”

They think it’s some sort of trump card, like, if your average rando would be uncomfortable with this it must be wrong!

First, your average rando is grossed out by same-sex relationships and the existence of trans people. Surprise surprise, antis, if you told them what you ship (totally wholesome, unproblematic smoll gay beans loving and supporting each other) they’d be grossed out by you, too. This is why you don’t let the opinions of your average sex-negative, homophobic puritan determine whether or not you should be ashamed of your sexuality.

Second, discussing your kinks with random people is not fucking appropriate. There is a time and place to discuss your sexual interests and with random strangers that didn’t ask about your sexual interests ain’t it. But, antis generally don’t understand boundaries, so it doesn’t surprise me that they suggest people do this.

So no, I’m not going to go up to random people and tell them that I read and write “problematic” fic.

However, the people in my life whose opinions matter, like my spouse, my close friends, my therapists…. All these people know my abuse history, and that I write this stuff to process trauma and connect with other survivors, and all of them think that is healthy and okay. That’s all the reassurance and validation that I need.

You can’t frighten me into shame and silence by telling me that your average rando thinks I’m a pervert. Your average rando is wrong about a great many things. This is one of them.

Comments

[out_there]

But, antis generally don’t understand boundaries, so it doesn’t surprise me that they suggest people do this.

Yes, that is a very good point. Things that are appropriate to say on tumblr to others in teh fan community are not necessarily for random strangers on the bus conversations. Nor should it be.

(Likewise, I don't want to hear about a total stranger's health concerns, traumatic history, family dramas or... y'know, any of the many, many things that should be shared with those that care about you.)

[anarfea]

One of the unexpected consequences of me writing my essay on noncon fanworks, in which I'm very frank about my own CSA and sexual assault, is that random people will send me tumblr messages which are sometimes quite graphic where they get into their own abuse histories or whatever. I guess in retrospect I should have realized that this would be one of the ways that people would respond to that essay, but the thought didn't occur to me at the time and at first it was really overwhelming.

At this point, I'm used to it. And I only get maybe one comment a month any more so it's not a big deal. But in the beginning when I just put up the essay and it was getting thousands of notes on tumblr, I had a flood of people sending me these messages, and I just deleted them all because I could not cope.

Anyway, I guess I'm flattered that people feel like they can confide in me or whatever? And I did say I wanted to start a conversation. But at the same time, maybe don't dump the details of your trauma on people who don't know you?

[out_there]

But at the same time, maybe don't dump the details of your trauma on people who don't know you?

Yeah, maybe not.

[tei]

What a bizarre argument. I think if you attempted to explain your hobbies to randos on the street, you probably wouldn't even get to the shipping part of the conversation. Most average rando conversations would probably go off the rails starting at "ew, fanfiction? Weird."

Edit: also, I think this goes for a lot of hobbies, not just fanfiction. If someone really into a particular sport or type of music or whatever that I wasn't familiar with tried to explain to me the details of infighting among that particular hobby's adherents and get me to take a side, I'd also be lost long before the point where we get to the actual topic of the wank.

[anarfea]

Yeah. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense. It's just like "If you told people you write underage noncon they'd all think you're a pedophile!" Ergo, you are a pedophile. I mean.... People in general aren't good judges of, well, anything. We live in such a puritanical, sex-negative culture. Of course they're going to have warped ideas about sex.

That and most people are just not that interested in the lives of strangers.

Anyway, the argument is dumb.

[pennypaperbrain]

Not a direct response to this post, but yesterday I think I saw the ultimate tumblr reblog:

“It [fic about abuse] helps me cope” that’s not a GOOD thing."

Obviously that's taken out of context, but the context didn't add much. We seem to have reached peak tumblr with the pure message COPING=BAD.

More directly germane to the post, I guess the completely public, rebloggable nature of tumblr has fuelled that a lot? There's not much excuse for it but some people genuinely DON'T understand that just because they can read something doesn't mean it was meant for them.

*waves flag for you and your rich and multiplicitous fic*

[anarfea]

I think it's not so much "coping=bad" but that they consider writing or reading darkfic to be a "maladaptive coping mechanism." I'm pretty sure I've seen it described in those exact terms. It's all about dividing people into "Good' and "bad" survivors based on whether they cope with their trauma appropriately or not. And that sucks.

Which is not to say there aren't genuinely bad coping mechanisms. Self-harming to cope is the first that comes to mind. But, like I said, I've talked to multiple therapists who have assured me that writing darkfic is healthy.

And yeah, tumblr's reblog format fuels a lot of this nonsense. It really encourages people to "one up" one another in a way that I don't think is good at all.

Thanks for the flag waiving.

[lovetincture]

“It [fic about abuse] helps me cope” that’s not a GOOD thing."

Wooooow, that's something that bothers me on a great many levels, starting with: since when do people get to tell others how best to deal with their own trauma and abuse?

[anarfea]

Yeah. Antis always seem pretty convinced they know the only ways to cope. And it always involves keeping silent about what you've experienced.

[donut_donut]

All these people know my abuse history, and that I write this stuff to process trauma and connect with other survivors, and all of them think that is healthy and okay.

I totally get that you're talking about your own lived experience here, and what makes *you* feel all right about the art you consume and create. But I wish fandom as a whole could quietly step away from the idea that you have to be a victim of rape or abuse in order to read/write about it.

As it happens, I don't really like reading about rape, but I read/watch a TON of stuff about murder. And guess what? I've never been murdered, lol. But probably every human who has existed since Cain slew Abel has on some level worried about getting killed by a fellow human. You don't have to have direct experience with it to be afraid of it, and to turn to art to help you process that fear.

I think the same is true of rape and abuse and CSA, etc. You don't have to have been *personally* victimized to be anxious about these topics. Hell, if you live in our society and consume normal everyday news stories, it's probably more unusual *not* to have anxiety over it, especially if you're a woman. Fiction about these topics is a way of taking control of that fear and managing it in an extremely low-risk context. Everyone should be allowed to access that tool, regardless of their personal experiences.

[recently_folded]

You don't have to have been *personally* victimized to be anxious about these topics.

Precisely. The end result of so many of these tumblr absolutes is total walled tribalism, where only the people who are [something] can talk/do/practice/art/whatever about it. I see this in arguments about representation in fic; I see this about art/cultural appropriation—at its reductionist foundation, these are all concepts saying that you can only exist within the limits of what you were born into. Now clearly there are limits to all of these—I'd never be so absolutist as to say that there are not horrible, gratuitous extremes in any realm—but it we cannot learn, if we cannot be inspired by, if we cannot try to put our mind into the culture of another, if we can never see the other, we can never find any common ground with them and they can only remain alien to us. Which, fuck everyone who rode in on that particular horse, is only a recipe for war and never one for peace.

[anarfea]

I agree, there's this idea that people shouldn't write outside their experience, which I generally disagree with. I mean, it is absolutely important to do your research and to be respectful, and to not exploit the narratives of those who are more marginalized than you. But I think people absolutely should be encouraged to write outside their own experience. Otherwise writing is boring.

[anarfea]

I'm sorry if I came off as saying that darkfic writers and readers need to be survivors because I don't think that at all. Quite the opposite, in fact. I generally think that the idea that you have to be a survivor to write darkfic is dangerous because it makes people out themselves. And I've learned the hard way that there can be really terrible consequences to making yourself vulnerable in public in ways people will use against you.

In my essay on noncon fanworks I talk about this, and also why I think people are attracted to darkfic in the first place, which is because we're so steeped in rape culture and I think that absolutely everyone is affected by it even if they aren't a survivor personally, as you said. It gets pounded into women's heads that they're in constant danger of being raped. And some people cope with that fear by eroticizing it. People like to be scared, and grossed out. It's fascinating. This is why we have horror movies.

Just for me personally, I think that a lot of what I write is about exploring the questions raised by my own history. I feel sort of compelled to explore the same themes over and over. And I've been reassured by multiple therapists that that's a healthy thing to do. That's all I meant.

[lovetincture]

I generally think that the idea that you have to be a survivor to write darkfic is dangerous because it makes people out themselves. And I've learned the hard way that there can be really terrible consequences to making yourself vulnerable in public in ways people will use against you.

This, so hard. I've occasionally been in conversations that have ended with someone basically saying "You can't say/write XYZ because you don't know what it's like to be abused."

And actually, I do, but that's not something I advertise 99% of the time for a plethora of reasons. And then what do you even do at that point in the conversation? Either you trot out your very personal experiences in front of someone who may or may not mean you well, or you just kind of throw your hands up and discontinue the conversation. I think it's really shitty to basically demand that people prove their victimhood/survivorship before they're allowed to explore certain topics.

[anarfea]

Yeah, that exactly. I've taken the route of "trot out my personal experiences to someone who doesn't mean me well," and it went, well, badly. It fucking sucks and we shouldn't ask people to put themselves in this position.

[donut_donut]

No no, I understood that's not what you meant! You were only describing your own experience, not setting rules for other readers.

But I do see this argument used against antis a LOT ("darkfic is okay because it's a coping mechanism for survivors" which implies it's not okay for anyone else), and also the related argument that you shouldn't force survivors to out themselves.

Both are totally true, but when they become the *only* arguments that get passed around, I think it may have the unintended effect of making people feel guilty for enjoying darkfic if they are NOT survivors in the traditional sense. They may wonder if there's something really wrong with them, when really, using art to examine dark topics is a perfectly normal part of human experience.

[vulgarweed]

It really is just like religion for them, isn't it? Confess your sins! Present yourself to be judged! Stand in the pillories and take your shame, you hussy!

I mean, there's a lot of humor to be mined out of people going around everywhere and opining at great length about their Snarry or their Sheriarty or whatever - and the camera cuts over and some exasperated barista is just trying to get the lattes made. But on some darker level I wonder if confession culture, callout culture, and snoopy social media is changing expectations around privacy. You're expected to list all your demographic info, including your traumas and illnesses, on your public profile so people can judge whether you're qualified to hold opinions or make creative work based on that. It's really really skin-crawling.

[anarfea]

I think there are definitely parallels to evangelical Christianity. There's a lot of people who talk about this in language of repentance. Like "I used to read that sick stuff until I discovered purity culture and now I'm a new person!" I suspect this is because a lot of antis were raised in conservative households and have that authoritarian mindset which they continue to carry even though they move to the left because they're gay.

I also do think that there are changes to people's ideas about privacy. Didn't Mark Zuckerberg say that people shouldn't have an expectation of online privacy anymore? Or something similar. Anyway yeah I think people, especially on tumblr, are posting more and more really personal details about their lives because there's this idea that the more marginalized you are, the more right you have to speak on certain topics. This maybe originates from the good instinct to want to give a bigger platform to people who have been historically denied it, but it can have some really dangerous consequences. I remember some story, I think it was someone in Hamilton fandom, pretended to be an HIV positive POC because she was writing a fic in which Hamilton characters were HIV+, and then the whole thing just got out of control and she had this whole fake story about her and her fake Black wife (who I think was her sock puppet) and was asking for donations and stuff, and then people found out she was White and the whole thing blew up in a huge way.

So yeah, it is kind of skin crawling.

[vulgarweed]

OH I remember that scandal. It went even deeper than that! They had a whole blog, HIV-living, about, well, living with HIV. They claimed to be a Chinese-Pakistani survivor of sex trafficking, and their wife was Black and also HIV+ and of two nationalities, and they were living in India. And they asked for money to help with medical treatments. That's what finally got her caught, someone realized the donations platform they were scamming people with isn't one that's used in India. She was a white American college girl who did not have HIV at all.

but it gets BETTER, she got outed by someone who held a grudge because "hiv-living" had purity-wanked them over their Lin-Manuel Miranda RPF cannibal mermaid fic.

It is the most Tumblr thing that ever Tumbld. I think rational people can all agree that fandom is better off with more cannibal mermaid fic and fewer people scamming for money and credibility by lying elaborately about their entire lives.

Every time one of those posts goes around about how older people who don't list their exact age on their profiles are creepy because minors might think they're close to them in age...and it's like it never occurred to those people, the very obvious fact that PREDATORS LIE. I mean, do you really think everyone who claims to be 17 in their bio really is? Really? If you do, the naivete there is far more worrying than the existence of people who just say "adult" but don't get more specific, y'know?

[anarfea]

Yes! The cannibal mermaid scandal. Anyway, talk about peak tumblr.

[vulgarweed]

Oh my Lord she's trying to come back: http://foxnewsfuckfest.tumblr.com/post/182693740497/alix-hivliving-is-trying-to-get-back-into-fandom

Star Wars fandom, apparently. Wonder which character is going to have Space AIDS.

[anarfea]

Wow. No words.

[mezzo_cammin]

I’ve never understood this anti argument of, “try going outside and telling random strangers what you defend online and see what happens.”

What? What kind of argument is that? That's...not an argument. That is something someone says when they have no basis to support their argument (whatever it may be). Why don't they go outside and tell a random stranger who/what they're persecuting (and that is what they're doing) online and see what happens? I mean. What?

[anarfea]

LOL that's a good response. "Why don't you go and tell random strangers that you send people death threats because they want to read stories about the wrong fictional characters banging."

[lovetincture]

I’ve never understood this anti argument of, “try going outside and telling random strangers what you defend online and see what happens.”

Ironically, I think most people give far fewer shits than antis think they would. I don't go up in people's faces talking about my kinkfic, but I am absolutely not trying to hide it. If people ask me what I write, I point them in the direction of my original fic and AO3. My real name is attached to every single thing I write or do online.

You know who's come up to me mad about any of it? Absolutely no one. Because for the most part, people have better things to worry about than what kind of kinks I read and write. 🤷‍♀️

So really, the antis are going to need to get a better argument. Or preferably, y'know, just chill out and stop policing what everyone else is writing.

[anarfea]

I suppose. I'm not nearly as brave as you. I write underage and noncon, and I certainly wouldn't want say, my employer knowing that. I don't attach my real name to my fanworks. You never know when someone with bad intent could try to doxx you.

[lovetincture]

Ehh, I never really like framing it in terms of bravery or lack of bravery. I think it's just the product of fortuitous circumstances (being self-employed and having a little more leeway in that arena) and certain values. Like, I value openness and transparency, even at the expense of privacy. And I don't think that's any more right or justified than someone who prefers to preserve their privacy and anonymity. I think it's all just different, valid choices that people make depending on their lives and personalities.

I just like to contribute my opinion as like, "the view from where I'm sitting," since I think it can be an interesting addition to these discussions sometimes.

[splix]

My god, antis actually say that? I know I'm out of the loop, but jfc, what a ridiculous argument. The most telling thing, I think, is that the antis are conflating privacy and shame. I'm not ashamed of what I write, but that doesn't mean I broadcast it to randos. As you said, boundaries.

Clearly, to them, it doesn't matter *why* you do it - if you haven't been abused you're just a perv, and if you have been, well, you just need a different form of therapy or you should just swallow it back and not inflict your experiences on other people. Fuck that noise.

[anarfea]

Yeah, I have seen antis say this multiple times. Most recently a couple of days ago which is why I made this post.

And yeah, they are very much about telling survivors they should shut up and not discuss their experiences because they might trigger others.